Lifting a third gen

[an observer]

Hey all,

Having resisted the suv siren song and repaired our beloved tl...
https://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/sh...=107492&page=2

I'm now thinking whether it is worth adjusting the ride height. But instead of lowering, i want to make it higher!

The standard clearance is about 160mm. Has anybody raised their magna?

To be clear, its all about comfort, not off roading. I wasnt able to find anything in a check of past threads.

I was thinking of anywhere from 30 to 50mm. Can this be done safely and legally?

The springs and shocks were replaced some time ago and could be getting close to needing doing again. So this is basically a feasibility exercise.

Thanks everyone.

[leadfoot6]

It would appear that Lovells:

https://www.lovellsauto.com.au/cats.php

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Lenovo/My%20Documents/Downloads/cat_passcomm.pdf

make raised springs for Magnas/Veradas.

Page 18 of 24

Front CFR-31

Raise
20mm

Designed for increased
ground clearance,
country driving and
where load bearing
accessories are fitted i.e.
bull bar

Rear CRR-40

Raise
20 - 25mm

Designed to dramatically
increase load carrying
capacity, heavy towing
and vehicles fitted with
LPG or larger fuel tanks

Note: The catalogue only covers up to TJ - not TL/TW - but I imagine they would be compatible.

I imagine Dobinsons would have a similar offering but I am not going to spend much time on this as I consider raising a Magna sedan a potentially bad idea.

In the absence of loading down either end of the vehicle with heavy bull bars/LPG tanks or using the car for towing, the altered spring is not going to be a good "fit", IMO.

I am also unsure which increased travel shock absorber would be compatible.

(Those sold for standard heights may be quite OK - but when used for increased ride heights, as opposed to lowered I would only be guessing)

Unless you live in an area with bumpy roads and have ground clearance issues, I would stick to replacing the standard height springs with like parts, and invest in quality shocks and also replace any worn bushes.

I have lowered(stage 1 lowered - not super low) Dobinson springs f&r.

When I had my 380 conversion done, I had Koni Red shocks installed on the rear at MitsFix.

They are an improvement over the Sachs shocks that I had installed 2 years ago and are quite good as far as ride goes.

I do not think very highly of Sachs shocks front or rear on a lowered Magna - they might be perfectly fine for a standard ride height setup.

I have, at this point, renewed almost every single suspension/steering component front and rear including rear upper & lower trailing arm bushes with brand new genuine parts/brand new rear wheel bearings/ brand new genuine steering rack/brand new genuine front control arms etc, etc. - mostly done at MitsFix.

For the front, I am still deciding to install Koni Yellow(moderate $$$), or go for custom Bilsteins(big$$$) but I have to decide soon as the current setup with Sachs shocks is most certainly sub-standard when mated to higher rate Dobinson lowered springs.

I am attempting to optimise my car for handling, not necessarily "comfort", but it is still comfortable, nevertheless - even with 17" VRX wheels on 215/55/17 Michelin tyres.

When I first got my TL AWD 4 years ago, my 94 year old mum(she flew over to Adelaide with me where I purchased it from) frequently remarked that it was the most comfortable car that she had ever been in.

(She has been a passenger in quite a few, and indeed still held her own unrestricted/unblemished drivers licence until 2015/age 91.)

She is unaware of the type or amount of suspension work I have had completed in the last 3 years(which is still not extreme by any means- no coilovers, no 20" wheels, no camber pins), but she has not made a single adverse comment about ride quality during this time.

(but she always complains to me about how poorly my brother's KJ Jeep Cherokee rides - even with the Bilstein shock package I installed a few years back - I largely agree with her on this point, and I just abhor 4wd's)

I really can't for any reason see why a standard well maintained TL AWD would need to have its comfort levels improved over and above what I would consider more than adequate(worn parts being an exception), unless the roads are really bad and/or heavier loads than normal are carried.

P.S. Others might have a completely opposite opinion to me, but just to reinforce my position raising a Magna has not been much talked about here @AMC, and in all the years I have sold cars, it is very rare to see a "normal" passenger type car(as opposed to SUV/monster truck imitators) with raised suspension.

I believe there is a good reason for this.....

[an observer]

Thank you for the considered reply Leadfoot. FWIW, I do use the car on rough dirt roads where it would benefit from a little additional clearance (but not 4wd). This is probably where I break things like engine mounts. This is the exception though, mostly it is routine around town, up to the shops and whatnot trips.

I checked out the catalogue links. From what is stated, the intent of the off-the-shelf parts probably wouldn't suit what I have in mind. The additional height seems only intended to counteract the added weight of bull bars, lpg tanks or towed trailers, none of which apply in my case. As such, I gather the car would simply ride more stiffly and be less comfortable in normal use. So this seems a rather pointless endeavour.

Last time around I had a positive experience at Fulcrum, when they installed a bump stop kit, so I will try to make a time for them to give it the once over. At least this way I can get an idea of what could benefit from being renewed and get it priced up before proceeding. It won't address my occasional ride height fretting, but may make it a bit nicer to amble around town in.

cheers,

[leadfoot6]

As you are going to Fulcrum - the home of SuperPro suspension bushes - you might like to do a quite cheap front sway bar bush replacement/improvement that I did on my AWD shortly after I purchased it 4 years ago.

Further details and SuperPro part number is here:

https://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/sh...=1#post1626767

https://automotivesuperstore.com.au/...ro-spf1801-23k

In other related threads, I suggested that it was about the best value for money or "Bang for the Buck" suspension repair that I can think of, especially since I did the work myself.

When I replaced mine at home in May 2015, my car had traveled about 155,000km and it was easy to see upon removal of the original part that they were deformed and past due for replacement.

Almost every Magna/Verada still on the road in 2019 with the original rubber bushings would benefit from this procedure, AWD variant or otherwise.

Even if my car had been driven gently up until the point where I purchased it, once I started to drive it with more "enthusiasm", for want of a better word, it was clear that something in the front end was not quite correct, with some strange noises being heard in certain situations.

The replacement of the original rubber with the SuperPro urethane bush minimised any unusual noises, and provided improved handling at the same time.

I would recommend anyone who has traveled this distance or greater to replace theirs, especially in view of the cheapness of the repair, even if done on a hoist by a mechanic.

Workshop labour in this instance should be no more than $50 - plus the less than $30 or so for the purchase price of the part.

Similar money would be involved in changing the rear sway bar bushes, although the rears are less likely to experience deformation.

Both front and rear bushes are very easy to change if the car is on a hoist, but both ends can be done at home if necessary.

No wheel alignment is necessary afterwards as suspension geometry is not being altered in any way.

P.S. Here are some comments/photos by "Grelise" about changing the front sway bar bushes:

New Front Swaybar D bushes are in, and I must say, it has made a big difference on turn in. Turn in is alot sharper, direct and doesn't want to dip and lean heavily on the front outside tyres now.
Direction changes are immediate, where before it thought about it, then turned.
Next is to get new rear D bushes.

Uploading pics, will post when done.

https://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/sh...=1#post1383923

His input made it easier for me to do this job, especially as I was brand new to Magnas.

P.P.S. If anyone does decide to do this at home, the supplied special thick grease/lubricant is to be applied ONLY to the circular inside part of the bush

i.e. between bush and sway bar NOT between bush and chassis or on the flat ends.

P.P.P.S. FWD bar is smaller than AWD.

The part number at the top of this post WILL NOT fit a FWD car.

MitsFix has these 20mm size bushes:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Front-Sw...item2f24e8151d

for FWD models(ALL AWD's are 23mm - guaranteed).

SuperPro and others will also have similar.

For FWD owners, just in case I advise measuring your sway bar with vernier calipers prior to purchase to ensure correct fitment.

I have seen a few different measurement numbers quoted, just to add to the confusion for FWD owners.

[an observer]

Ok, back from the hoist.

There's a few minor things needing doing. Mechanic pointed them out and I promptly forgot several of them.

The front sway bars need new bushes, not surprising. Some D bolts need replacing as they aren't the right ones. The steering rack boot is leaking and needs renewing. And I think he said something about the rear control arms but not essential.

A steal at six hundred bucks including labour so it goes back on Friday to get it all done. They also insist on doing a front end alignment again afterwards, which I'm not convinced about but they seem to think needed.

He was impressed by the cars overall condition. I was told some of the cars they see are in a pretty bad way.

[leadfoot6]

It's good to see that you are getting some things done that are beneficial for safety.

When the mechanic replaces the boot on the steering rack, it is advisable to have a wheel alignment done to ensure that the steering geometry is correct afterwards.

It will be nicer to drive after having the front sway bar bushes replaced.

And safer as well.

When I had the 380 engine swap done, I had my steering rack replaced as a complete unit with a genuine Mitsubishi item in order to prevent the onset of leaks, amongst other things happening to the steering in the future.

It was easier to do the rack swap when the engine was out, and the old power steering fluid was replaced with fresh.

There was a worthwhile improvement in steering feel as a result.

The steering was not showing any obvious signs of distress or misbehaviour, but I just did this to "futureproof" this aspect of vehicle behaviour.

[an observer]

Yesterdays service and todays repairs are now done.

The servicing was - for once - fairly painless, although i did get the brake fluid flushed.

Today the car went to Fulcrum for the rack mount and front sway bar bushes. They were going to replace the link bolts but after pulling them out, cleaning and inspection, declared them fit to reuse.

The front end feels much more positive as a result.

About the only issue not addressed was the afm, which turned out to be the wrong part. Which is annoying. And the car has started stalling again at idle when well and truly hot.

[leadfoot6]

<SNIP>
Today the car went to Fulcrum for the rack mount and front sway bar bushes. They were going to replace the link bolts but after pulling them out, cleaning and inspection, declared them fit to reuse.

The front end feels much more positive as a result.
<SNIP>

I strongly recommend all Magnas/Veradas(the youngest of which - 2005 TW/KW - have to be almost 14 years old at a minimum) have these procedures carried out.

I did my sway bar bushes at home myself, and had a complete brand new genuine AWD rack(which includes new mounts) and outer tie rod ends installed and power steering fluid replaced at MitsFix last November.

[Spetz]

Leadfoot, how'd you find the ride before/after the SACHS shocks?

I recently fitted some to my car, including OEM strut tops + new OEM front bushes and find the ride quite harsh.
The way the car handles is markedly better, however not as much as I expected when replacing 250,000km old suspension.

[leadfoot6]

The ride BEFORE installing Sachs shocks @170,000km was what I would describe as "comfortable".

Slightly under controlled, but comfortable nonetheless.

That was on the original standard height/rate springs still running standard size 16" factory wheels and reasonably grippy Bridgestone Potenza 003 216/60/16 tyres.

The ride AFTER installing lowered Dobinson VRX style f&r springs, new front lower control arms, new Mackay strut top mounts and Sachs shocks f&r was not much less comfortable, except that the front gets "caught out" sometimes by short sharp bumps like when a partial section of road has been resurfaced.

The front end "bottoms out" momentarily due to the abrupt change in road surface.

This is because:

1: the springs are lower, so the ride height/suspension travel is reduced compared to factory standard ride height;

2: the Sachs shocks are not valved correctly(IMO) to work with the lowered springs;
and
3:I am running on 215/55/17 Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tyres, which are slightly lower in profile than what I had before, thus decreasing the amount of the depth of tire sidewall compared with the factory 16" wheels - ergo, slightly increasing the effective spring rate.

Once again, IMO, Sachs shocks would be fine for a Magna with standard height/rate springs, but I am doubtful as to their suitability for a car with lowered suspension IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES.

In addition, I run higher tyre pressures than many would - 38/36 f/r, which makes the ride slightly firmer.

The ride, in most circumstances on average roads is acceptable, but I probably could have got that from Monroe shocks.

The handling, on the other hand, is getting to the point of what I would call "adequate" or "acceptable" rather than "brilliant".

(Acceptable, but falling short of, yardsticks such as luminaries like MY 1999 models of even standard Imprezza WRX's - but, I suspect, these felt to be very lightly built cars so I suspect that they would not age well, and probably would not have the seemingly bulletproof drivelines of the Mitsubishi rally warriors of which the Magna AWD is related to)

No matter how much is spent on a car that is approaching 1700kg, it is difficult to overcome the physics involved in carrying that much weight.

The driver is not helping in this aspect either, with much exercise and dieting needed.

I am not a great fan of Sachs shocks.

There is the small possibility, however, that the set that I got was defective, but I have no way of proving that, short of having them removed from the car/strut,and tested on a shock absorber "dyno".

Instead, I have had the rears replaced with Koni Reds - better - and sometime before mid year hopefully I will have the fronts replaced with either Koni Yellows or Bilstein.

The rears now seem much less likely to "bottom out" on short sharp bumps that still certainly cause the front to misbehave.

I should have just had the fronts replaced with Koni Yellows or Bilsteins right from the word go 2 years ago and saved a lot of mucking around.

It would have been cheaper in the long run, but I relied on positive opinions about Sachs which I have found not fulfilled on a car with lowered springs .