Awd vs fwd fuel

[vlad]

Not sure what you mean, like??? As in myself, traffic, ect??

both. driving style. traffic condition. road condition like speed limits and flat or hilly etc.

[ewsy-kwawd]

The AWD isnt that much more expensive to run than the FWD.
A lot of it, comes down to driving style, driving conditioning (in the middle of a city / outer city / rural) - these will all effect economy of a FWD too, in stop start conditions a FWD magna can also kill your wallet at the pump if you want it to..

The tradeoff that you gain through slightly increased fuel economy is the extra grip. There are times when you do need power / grip to be able to get out of a situation (I have nearly been crashed into in the wet on the road by other cars and the only reason I didnt get hit was because I was able to get the car away from them.)

My AWD Rada, with its flashed ECU, can better some FWD 5Speed Auto FWD Magna / Veradas with 8.03L/100km on a PURE highway stint @ 100/110km/hr

Around town, the car will feel heavier than a FWD - because it is - it is at least 100KG heavier than the FWD comparitive, Diffs and drive shafts etc all have weight to them.
I find personally that at highway speed the AWD feels much ore stable than the FWD does, it feels more settled, which to me makes it a much more relaxing drive

At town speeds, you wont feel the extra grip - just the extra weight,, but with more speed (as posted) and changing conditions you find that you can definatley feel the extra grip and start to 'tap into it' more and more. The feeling of security that it can bring to a heavy downpour driving situation is invaluable.

After having an AWD Verada, I would never go back to a FWD car of any sorts or maker, as someone who easily gets bored of my cars and buys new ones me keeping this one for the 4years that I have is an excellent sign.

Also the look on some peoples faces when you come through a wet corner with some reasonable speed and dont spear off the side / understeer off the side, is quite a shock for some people - but that is a MAGNA is the expression used the most (a lot of people have forgotten Mitsubishi made the AWD Magna / Verada Varient.

In short - the extra fuel consumption is worth it - for the rare event that you need the extra grip / traction in some situations.
Better to have it and not be needing it all the time - than to not have it and to need it (so to speak)

I would buy another onne again

AWD Verada Loves it!

Hi, I am interested to find out who flashed the ECU in your car and how much you paid for it to be able to achieve such a low fuel consumption. I own a Verada GTVI AWD II and it really kills me to drive it around town at 14.5lt/100kms. In the highway, in a 20 kms drive starts going down up to 11.2lt/100km. I took the car for a service with the mechanic and I reckon that for changing the oil (and although he said that he had checked the the other 2 for the transmission) I ended up paying $ 180.00 which I think it was not worth it against the $ 420.00 that Mitsubishi was asking me for the 60000 kms service. I got annoyed because I bought a disc with the repair manual and I discover that you need a MUT-II or III engine analyzer to be able to properly see how everything is working and for also to be able to cancel the service code that appears in the car for every service. So if you care to write me a line, appreciated.

[ewsy-kwawd]

Hi Vlad
I own a car exactly like yours with 60000 km on the clock and I came across (according with a repair disc manual) the MUT-2 or 3 engine analyzer that you need have to be able to check the Mitsubishi cars. Although our cars are already kind of "old technology", still we do need one of them to do a good job "at home". I consider then that a mechanic should need to have one of them to provide you with a good service. At least if you go to Mitsubishi for a service and you demand the print out of the engine analyzer, you know that they have the right tools and that they did the right thing for you. I'm 65 y.o and at this stage I can not go under the car to make an oil change or start trying to change an oil filter or going ever deeper than that, so have you ever thought about it, the engine analyzer? In Ebay they range from US$ 329.00 (wireless) up to the professional ones for US$ 1150.00. Have a look and send me a line, if you've got some time available.

[vlad]

Hi ewsy, no I have not thought about getting the MUT-II analyser. You can easily find the error codes etc using a simple test light. There are instructions on here on how to do it. I always take my car to a Mitsubishi service centre for general services. One thing you should do for yours is to fit an external transmission cooler in-line with the existing one (that is the bottom of the radiator). This, along with regular transmission servicing and genuine Mitsubishi or SPIII transmission oil will prolong the life of the very complex auto trans.

As for fuel usage, 14.5 around town is a bit high. I only got that high when I was flooring it at every light and only letting go of the accelerator at the last minute, so to speak. Depending on the route I take to and from work (whether I go into the city or not), I am getting 12.5 to 13.0. On the trip to Robe and back I averaged 9.5 and that was with numerous overtaking manoeuvres. I always manually shift up. I let the ECU/TCU shift down unless I am going around a corner or I anticipate that the lights are about to go green. I find kicking down to down change actually uses more fuel than manually changing down. Also, I never rev beyond 2200rpm unless I floor it and hence, I shift to 5th at just above 40km/hr to take full advantage of the low down torque. When I got SKR to tune my car, I asked for it to lean out a little as well. The end result was not much gain in power but a generous increase in torque through a wider rev range. I find that during school holidays, I can get it down to as low as 11.5 doing the same route.



Since then I have fitted 380 cams but have yet to get it retuned. In saying that, I am using 98RON to achieve the above figures of fuel usage.

BTW, what colour is yours and have you made any mods to it?

[ewsy-kwawd]

Hi Vlad
In the first place I would like to wish a Happy New Year and secondly to apologize for the delay in responding to yours. I have been very busy and although I had the report of the dynamometer in the glove box of my car, I was always forgetting to grab it from it because I don't use the car very often (once a month..?) Finally today , because I had to get the rego papers I also got the results and I have to tell you that I'm really disappointed with the pathetic information that I received printed in mine against the quality and quantity in yours.
Because I don't know how you inserted your report here (if you tell me how to do it, I'll do it, I have a scanner if I need it) I want to tell you that on the left hand side I have the KW, bottom KPH and right hand side AFR (?) from 10 (bottom) to 18 (top). Do you know what that is AFR? The final result was that at 153 KPH showed 96.9 KW. Very unimpressive!!! Now coming back to the engine analyzer I saw very elementary ones starting from $ 28.00 that at least with one of them you can get rid of that bloody light telling you that you are in the 60000 km service and that if you take it to M'shi after the service they are going to cancel it for you. A friend of mind has another car like ours and he told me that after you are over the 60000 km mark the light disappear by itself.
Regarding the external transmission cooler, I have everything with me to install it but I am going to do it when i put the car to repaint front and rear bumper bars because the back one has a small dent and the front one has bottom scratches which happened when I go out of the building into the street. I realized that to be able to avoid this I had to come out 30+ degrees across the entrance to avoid the sinking in the street. Well, I learnt my lesson. I asked to some auto-trans specialists if they had ever installed an E.T.C. in this particular car and the answers were "no" or just bring it and we'll see what we can do for you. There was only one that on the phone was able to quote $ 220.00 to install it (with me providing everything).
Just a comment but I saw it (and learned it) in You Tube how to make a complete flush of any automatic transmission without rolling the car one centimeter and only using (in our case) no more than twelve liters of ATF. Total time if you have drainage plug for the ATF: ten, yes ten minutes!!!!! Unbelievable how we are being taken for a ride by the auto-trans specialists telling you that you need one now, come back in two hundred kilometers and get a second one and you know what: after the second one still your ATF is contaminated with the old fluid!!!
If you are interested let me know and I'll explain to you how he did it. I'm still in a state of sock in how simple and easy it is and angry at how come that the auto-trans specialists don't do it because they want you to spend a lot of money or because THEY SIMPLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT. Anyway that's life.
By the way, I believe that I didn't tell you that I installed in the car all HID lamps, front and rear parking sensors and reverse camera which is not at the deep level of modifications that you made in yours and that means touching any mechanical parts.
Doddski wrote an article, the one on top of yours that he mentioned his "AWD Rada, with its flashed ECU" and I don't know of any one doing this job here in Sydney. Are you aware of some one doing that because I'm very curious about the result of his car economy after the flashing. The other option that I was looking into was a gas conversion but now things have changed dramatically about that option. Before you were able to buy 2.2 liters of gas for 1 of petrol but now is only 1.55 of gas for 1 of petrol. By the time that I look at the extra consumption of gas against petrol not only i might end up breaking even but I rang M'shi many times while they were in Adelaide about the conversion and they always told me "no you can not do it in that particular model". It seems to be that everything was related to the valve seats not being hard enough to support "higher temperature" than what the normal petrol combustion does produce.
I have also to tell you that my other car died a Magna Elite 1990 and I bought a Magna Altera TF 1997 3L, good condition, owner an old person, well looked after but I have a problem that makes the car to use a lot more petrol that what it should: doesn't matter how gentle I try with the accelerator, the fourth gear doesn't engage until the car is at 57 KPH.
I drive with the GPS on all the time and it keeps continuously telling me that I am in a 50 KPH zone and either I break the speed limit by 10 KPH to engage fourth gear or I drive in third all the time. Sydney has become almost 40% of it "a 50 KPH zone". I talked before Xmas with Central Automatics and they guessed on the phone that it could be a sensor; I had before some kind of similar trouble with my Magna Elite and they fixed it by adjusting the voltage of the sensor that manages the gear box. To make a comparison between this car and the Verada: this one is a crazy horse that you touch the accelerator and flies while the Verada you can control it from a very calm and sedated car to a very up and go one. Will see what happens when I take it to them to have a look at the auto-trans sensor.
Well, last but not least the color of my car is Silver and as I mention before I only made those cosmetic modifications to the car.
It will be then until the next time and if they discover what was happening with the auto-tans and fix it I will let you know what it was.
Regards, ewsy

[vlad]

EwSY, I will reply in full later. in short, AFR is air fuel ratio. ETC installation on ours is a b***h to do. The whole bar has to come off. Lots of scrivets to undo (need to get some new ones from mitsu ready as some will get damaged during removal). It will take over two hours to do so $220 labour is not bad. Be sure not to route the lines over the radiator fan but go under the battery.

[macropod]

I've just done a run from Canberra to Adelaide (where I am now). Achieved 8.6l/100km (11.6km/l) with the aircon on most of the way in 40ºC+ temperatures.

PS: My car has a std 91 octane tune, HM headers & trans external cooler. Apparently puts out more power ATW than vlad's too. See: https://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/sh...=1#post1596077

[vlad]

I've just done a run from Canberra to Adelaide (where I am now). Achieved 8.6l/100km (11.6km/l) with the aircon on most of the way in 40ºC+ temperatures.

PS: My car has a std 91 octane tune, HM headers & trans external cooler. Apparently puts out more power ATW than vlad's too. See: https://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/sh...=1#post1596077

Meh, different dyno but check out my torque vs yours. Put it this way. I have beaten many a V8 off the lights in merge lanes (I don't condone this). It is the torque that is more important for an AWD, esp low down torque.

[macropod]

Meh, different dyno but check out my torque vs yours.

I think you'll find your torque figures are dodgy - they're about double the real figures. That's because there is a fixed relationship between torque & power for any given RPMs. For that reason, it's also impossible for one car to produce more torque than another at the same RPM but less power.

The Torque/RPM/Power relationship is:
Power(Kw)=Torque(Nm)*RPM*2*PI/60000
Thus, if we use your dyno figures:
411.8Nm*3780RPM(88Km/h)*2*PI/60000=163Kw
Obviously, that's much greater than the reported peak power (105.9Kw), which didn't occur until 4770rpm(111Km/h).